20 year Maintenance

Maintaining, repairing, upgrading, commissioning, decommissioning topics.

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jerry
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

20 year Maintenance

Post by jerry »

#44 is close to 20 years old and has always been in Pacific NW saltwater. Time for some overdue maintenance. My boat is currently in the yard for new racing bottom paint and also mast/rod rigging maintenance which will include a furler replacement.
1. To double check for class rules it should be the Harken MarkIV Unit 1?
2. Turnbuckles being replaced and rod rigging inspected ± replaced.
3. Also any recommendation if halyard sheaves should be replaced? Mast is down so thinking it's not a bad idea, good investment.
4. I am having the forestay attachment upgraded as recommended
5. Anything else I should do while the mast is down?

Thanks
Jerry
J/109 #44
Seattle, WA
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Vento Solare
Posts: 394
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Newport, RI

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Vento Solare »

Jerry - my comments annotated below:

1. To double check for class rules it should be the Harken MarkIV Unit 1?
** yes - Mk III or MkIV Unit 1

2. Turnbuckles being replaced and rod rigging inspected ± replaced.
** Good - with continuous rod rigging it is creased where it bends at the spreader tips. Terminating with new cold heads you loose about 2 rod diameters, which move the bend in the wire to a different spot so shouldn't be done that way - use new rod. I had the turnbuckles replaced when mine was done and use Tefgel on all the threads.

3. Also any recommendation if halyard sheaves should be replaced? Mast is down so thinking it's not a bad idea, good investment.
** Good idea - I did that too. Minor cost compared to the rest of the job.

4. I am having the forestay attachment upgraded as recommended
**Good idea - my new mast actually uses an internal piece that fits in a slot and can't come out unless disassembled

5. Anything else I should do while the mast is down?
** I changed wiring and with LED lights was able to use smaller gauge marine grade tinned wire. Look at the terminals on all the lights. If there is any corrosion, fix them while the mast is down. I reused my wind sensor cable in my new mast and was sorry 3 months later when it failed. Inspect your VHF antenna and the associated cables and connectors. The plastic around the base of my antenna was severely UV compromised and very brittle so I replaced it. If you have access to a VSWR meter, use it to check the cable and antenna while the mast is down. A ham radio operator most likely has one you can borrow.
Dan Corcoran
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Dan Corcoran »

Some additional items to consider:

- Raise your anchor light 4-6 inches and move it away from anything else. Buy one of those MarineBeam tri-color light bulbs that can double as a navigation light (to purchase you will need to know your current fixture bulb type, as two different bulb types are supported). Why move the mount? At least on my 109 it was up against the wind sensor pole entirely blocking the light across a 20 degrees arc, and being low against the masthead, it was not viewable from the deck. When you raise it 6 inches it becomes easier to confirm that it is on, and if desired, in the navigation mode. Being a few inches away from any poles allows the light bulb, which is almost as wide as B&G wind wand, the masthead light will be degraded but not entirely blocked by the wind wand.
https://store.marinebeam.com/led-tri-co ... tion-bulb/

- add an LED light to illuminate your masthead windex, if you don't already have. To save weight, it can share a ground lead with your masthead light. (e.g. 3 wires, ground, masthead light, windex light)

- I got one of those VHF antennas optimized for both voice VHF and AIS, think about that when replacing the antenna but don't replace the antenna for that reason alone. The upgrade is not worth it IMHO.

- When replacing blocks, try not to drop them inside your mast, that is very easy to do.
30101
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:34 am
Location: Long Island Sound

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by 30101 »

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm sure a lot of owners appreciate these tips which go beyond the J-boat service manual recommendations.
A couple of further questions:
1) Has anyone else replaced their forestay tang? What is the ballpark on the cost for most owners? My yard estimates up to $2,000 for the metal work of cutting and welding a slot in the mast to accept the cast tang.
2) Any suggestions for materials used to elevate the nav/anchor light 6" above the mast? I agree it would be nice to see it from the deck.
jerry
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by jerry »

My boat is almost back in the water. Just waiting for the new rod rigging then re-stepping the mast. As for the forestay tang. I bought it directly from Sparcraft and gave it to our local shipyard. With shipping is was around $192.00.The yard estimated $945 to replace it, but as you know boatyard estimates always tend to be on the low end. I should have final cost next week when I get the boat back. Attached are pictures of it before and after. As you can see a significantly more substantial attachment.

Jerry
Shada #44
Attachments
Old Tang.jpeg
Old Tang.jpeg (996.09 KiB) Viewed 19356 times
Sparcraft Replacement.jpeg
Sparcraft Replacement.jpeg (1.57 MiB) Viewed 19356 times
New Tang1.jpeg
New Tang1.jpeg (878.47 KiB) Viewed 19356 times
New Tang2.jpeg
New Tang2.jpeg (932.09 KiB) Viewed 19356 times
TSweather
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Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by TSweather »

While it definitely looks like an upgrade, why are people choosing to retrofit this forestay attachment? Are the older style ones prone to failure? Ours has been in service since 2003 and still appears fine, though the furler itself has taken a beating and may need to be replaced in the coming years. Just trying to decide if it is really worth the effort to cut a slot into the rig.
Thanks, Todd
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Vento Solare
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Location: Newport, RI

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Vento Solare »

Todd,

I am aware of two failures. I had my rig inspected in 2017 when it was down and the inspection reveled no changes were required. Last year when I had the rig replaced due to storm damage, it came with the new design. Check with Skip. He may have some history and a recommendation.
Dan Corcoran
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Dan Corcoran »

How often should rod rigging be replaced if there are no observable problems?

What was the cost to replace rod rigging, where to purchase?
Dan Corcoran
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Dan Corcoran »

Replacement masthead available from the people who make the bulb that can double as an tri-color & anchor light
https://store.marinebeam.com/smart-led- ... nd-strobe/

It requires a VHF mount with a one inch extension adapter, it does not screw into the VHF mount, it rather just slides in and you use a couple of machine or wood screws to hold it in.
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Vento Solare
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Location: Newport, RI

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Vento Solare »

Dan Corcoran wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 6:01 pm How often should rod rigging be replaced if there are no observable problems?

What was the cost to replace rod rigging, where to purchase?
If the cold heads are accessible (e.g. swaged fittings not peened), a rigger can disassemble and inspect them for cracks. If no cracks and turnbuckles look good you're done.

If replacement is required you need to go to a rigging shop that has a swedge and cold head press and have them build to the dimensions of the old shrouds. We have some here in RI and my guess is you have some on Long Island.

If your shrouds are uneven length between port and stbd (e.g. turnbuckles have different settings), they can compensate so the resulting shrouds are the proper length. The replacement cost is probably between $5K to 10K. Don't forget added costs to step and unstep the rig. Probably a good time to do an overall complete rig and wiring inspection & overhaul.
jerry
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by jerry »

For me this was one of those every 5 every 10 years maintenance as the mast doesn't come done very often (it was my first time). I mainly went with Sparcraft's technical notice and note that older boats have had forestay tang failures. For me no different that the vang bracket and main sheet block. Several items on the J/109 seemed to be under-engineered. Part of the yard cost is the unstepping and stepping the mast so I figured I'd get as much done when the mast was down. I also replaced all the halyard sheaves and on inspection also had to replace the VHF antenna and cable as it has major UV damage and was cracked. For me it was an investment into the future, considering my age, age of the boat and potential resale value down the road, if I ever decide to sale her.

As for the rod rigging, it was cost/investment decision. I looked at having the rod rigging inspected and tested, but base on the yard estimate by the time I had that done and labor involved and knowing it isn't a perfect science, I was then at > 50% of my way to the cost of replacement. I also had to have all turnbuckles replaced as well. Again looking at long term investment, I just decided to replace the rod rigging (and also a new furler) which just eliminates all doubt on the integrity of the standing rigging. My yard sent the old rod rigging to a specialty shop so they could get accurate measurements. It added several weeks, but just got them this week. The estimate from my yard for rod replacement including furler was $12K.

Now that it will be new- any suggestions on the best system to tune up/down rig turnbuckles without damaging them? I had used the specific wrench size and a long flat screwdriver, but over time it just got too worn that I couldn't tune the rig. Just looking for a better system if there is any.
Jerry
TSweather
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:24 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by TSweather »

I am aware of two failures. I had my rig inspected in 2017 when it was down and the inspection reveled no changes were required.
Thanks Bill
Now that it will be new- any suggestions on the best system to tune up/down rig turnbuckles without damaging them?
Hey Jerry, Have found that Knipex pliers with smooth faces are easy on the turnbuckles. They actually make silicone caps that can go over the flat jaws if you really want to prevent any chance of scratches. They allow something like a racheting motion and allow for pretty quick adjustment.
Pliers: https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wr ... ol/8603125
Caps:https://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-Tools-Pro ... B081K8SQSD

In the past I have also used a smoothed scrap piece of G-10 the same way you used a screwdriver previously as it will not scratch and is plenty strong.

Todd
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Vento Solare
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Location: Newport, RI

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Vento Solare »

jerry wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:30 pm Now that it will be new- any suggestions on the best system to tune up/down rig turnbuckles without damaging them? I had used the specific wrench size and a long flat screwdriver, but over time it just got too worn that I couldn't tune the rig. Just looking for a better system if there is any.
Jerry
In addition to Todd's G10 wrench suggestion you may want to periodically unscrew each turnbuckle one at a time to clean salt and dirt. Clean the threads with mineral spirits and soft wire brush then wipe clean. Apply Tefgel to the threads and screw the turnbuckle all the way up and back to spread the Tefgel, wipe off any excess then reassemble the turnbuckles. I use a Micrometer to measure the spacing between the inside of the screws so that it is easy to get the rig back to base setting when reassembling. I do this annually, and more frequently if there appears to be friction. It also helps to put on backstay when tightening the rig as it takes tension off the shrouds.
Dan Corcoran
Posts: 280
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:32 pm

Re: 20 year Maintenance

Post by Dan Corcoran »

What size of those Knipex pliers are you using? The links point to a 5" plier but protective caps for 10". Do you use it without the caps?
Thanks!
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