The J/109 Class Association Forum

I have a mystery I haven’t been able to solve. Two years ago after the first leg of a 2-day distance race, After we docked I noticed I had about 2 gallons of water in the starboard quarter-berth “the garage”. I cleaned it out, and the next day, no issue. Over the past two years, I will intermittently get water in the garage. It seems not to occur in lighter winds and calmer conditions, but when out in moderate winds (≈ 15 kts), sometimes there is water, and in other races, there isn’t. The extreme came this past weekend. The garage was dry when we started. Started downwind in about 15-20 kts, but at the rounding mark 13 miles away, the winds were > 30 kts. We had 3-4 ft waves, the crew stacked more toward the back, and the waves/waterline was just at deck level at the stern for the downwind leg. Once we docked, I inspected the garage, and I had 4 gallons of water back in the quarter-berth, the most ever. Almost to the point it was at the head door threshold, nowhere to drain. When I went to inspect the rudder post, gator, and the inside of the stern section, I could not see an obvious source for the water.

She was hauled out in January 2024 for new bottom paint, and I had them drop the rudder and inspect/clean the rudder bearings, and all was fine (so they said). I do have a gator on the post, and it appears fine and clamps retightened. The two stern access plates (circular rudder one and the larger rectangle) were resealed.

I’ve inspected the area around the exhaust thruhull, and it appears fine. I don’t see any obvious separation, crack of the hull/deck interface at the stern (maybe there is one when the boat flexes?). I suspect somehow it is interrelated to the waterline, rudder, rudder bearings, and gator. My guess is that in heavier air or more weight in the stern, the water line rises and impacts the rudder and bearing/gator, and there is a leak somewhere when the stern is pushed down.

So looking for any ideas on where to start. I’m thinking about color dyes in different areas in the stern to see if the water is from one section, maybe adding weather stripping around the rudder post where the gator is clamped to it. I thought about putting a camera down there, or even a rookie crew member with a flashlight (just kidding, but I’m desperate). But first it would be nice to definitively know where the water is coming from.

On a final note- does anyone see a problem with putting in a drain hole at floor level next to the head door into the engine bilge area? So, if you do get water in the garage it at least has a place to drain. Is there a reason they didn’t put a drain in that section? On the extreme it can accumulate a lot of water and would only start to drain once it reached the head door threshold. Design flaw?

Any ideas?

Thanks for any insight.

Jerry Woodfield
S/V Shada
J/109 #44
Seattle, WA

Jerry,

I had a similar problem and found the water source to be where bedding compound had broken down where the stainless pedestal guard was bolted through the pedestal. To find the leak I suggest having a person crawling below while the other sprays a pressure washer to hit all items that penetrate the laminate from the primary winches to the transom.

The area you want to put a hole should already be free flow from the garage under the head liner. When I had the floorboard up in front of the head to clean and paint the bilge I found the debris had accumulated against the wire bundle blocking the flow. I cleaned that and put a small plastic spacer under the wire bundle to keep it elevated and improve flow. The water in the garage should flow to the stbd side of the engine where the head flushing hose is run. Made sure that area isn't blocked.

Hi Jerry,
We have hull #41, so around the same build date and ours has a drain hole in the forward bulkhead of that lazarette. Maybe TPI forgot to drill one there. If you are inside the (garage) looking forward towards the head, it is in the lower left corner and as Bill mentioned should drain down along the starboard side of the engine compartment into the bilge.

As for the source of your leak, I have personally found leaks in the staunchion bases, the stern flag mount, the steering pedestal including the stainless grab rail, as well as the rear cockpit access panel above the rudder quadrant. You could have a leak along the hull to deck joint, though that should be easy to just blast a hose at while someone sits below to look for water. Also, if the water is collecting in the bin below the holding tank, that would suggest which side the water ingress may be coming from. You may also want to check the holding tank vent thru hull to be sure that the hose is still attached.

Drainage along the floors and below the cabin sole is one of the true oversights in the design of these boats as I have also been chasing some of these leaks, mainly to preserve the plywood bulkheads.

Good luck,
Todd

Thanks for the insight. With a > 20 yr old boat I am fighting new leaks every year.. If #41 has a drain, my bet is TPI forgot to but in a drain on #44, that will help. Good ideal to get a person spraying and one below to watch, I haven’t check the pedestal or the flag mount or other areas and I do need to do that.

Still my puzzle is why only during racing? Like this weekend- we doubled check the quarter-berth/lazarette and it was dry, no water that I could see any where. It did not rain and we still got the 4 gallons of water. However, in the 25-35 kt winds there were times some waves reached the back of the boat, or the water ran into the cockpit, or the stern was low enough to get water up on the floor at the helm, then the access panels would be exposed

I’ll keep working on it and let you know what I find… Those are good places to start