Need to get up to speed

How to make the boat go faster or compete within the Class.

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blur
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by blur »

I just got delivery of #326 and last weekend we did our first race (20 miles around the island of Hermanö, wind 20-25 knots).

At times we had great speed, but had difficulties maintaining it. I had the polars from Quantums site and think we sailed up to them.

What are big No-Nos (pointing?)? What are you looking at in sail trim (wide and flat or more twisted)? Other hints?

I haven't seen any guides on the net, other than the rig tuning guides from North/Quantum?

We have the biggest race in Sweden coming up (Tjörn Runt with +500 boats) so I need to learn quickly :smile:
chris_z
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by chris_z »

Peter,

Welcome to the club, I hope you enjoy your boat as much as I do mine.

I just had a similar e-mail from another new J109 owner (Tom with hull 336), here is what I e-mailed back to him:

"For your question on the jib, we very rarely get to race OD so we tend to use the jib only in 14+ knots true. At those wind speeds the secondaries (cabin top) can handle it but we find ourselves using the primaries. Leaves the secondaries free for jib and main halyard tension, Cunningham, and spinnaker. If we are sailing OD in very light stuff then it is a no-brainer to go with the cabintops. I used to trim on a 105 as well and it was so easy for one person to handle.

The cross-over point from jib to genoa is about 12 knots, but a lot of that decision depends on if the wind is very steady or puffy, or if the seas are flat or lumpy. In a big swell we will stay with the genny up to about 14-15 true, because it helps us power through the waves, and if I hit a wave badly (which I do often) it gets me back up to speed. Same with the puffiness, if there are lulls that go with the 12-14 we might stay with the genoa so we keep some speed when it lightens up. And of course, we consider the forecast, will the wind increase or diminish. That being said, it is pretty easy to do a headsail change on the downwind leg.

On the main, you should NEVER have it all the way to centerline. Unlike the 105, it likes to be a little down. When the breeze starts to build, have the driver start adding backstay. Then, drop the traveller down a bit, sheet on the main and crank down the Cunningham. By the time you get to 20 knots of true you should have all the backstay on, the boom maybe a foot below centerline, and the sheet and Cunningham all the way on. This will flatten and de-power the main, keeping the boat more upright and reducing leeway.

Regarding the polars, they may be a little low when it comes to boat speed. We just got back from three days of OD racing at the Buzzards Bay Regatta (that is why it took a few days to get back to you) and on the first day I was sailing right to the polars, very high and right on target speed. And on the upwind legs boats were getting to the mark much faster than I was. I noticed that they all had their bows down and were sailing much faster and a bit lower. The second day I put my bow down and sailed about 0.3 knots faster than target and I was doing much better versus the fleet upwind (downwind was sadly another story). Instead of trying to get the inside jib telltale streaming up most of the time, I was driving so it flew straight backwards. So I would suggest at first make sure you err on the side of sailing too fast and not too high."

We sail 90% of our races with a genoa, and our rig set-up is very different than the tuning guids. We have the uppers at 55 lbs., the intermediates and lowers at 5 lbs. on the Loos guage. This works for us very well in everything from 6-20 knots, and gives us a tacking angle anywhere from 70-85 degrees depending on wind speed. We had our sailmaker out and he did a great job of tuning with us. We also moved the mast butt back about 3/8" as we sail in a light wind area.

Those are some of my thoughts, especially on PHRF trim. Maybe some of the guys that were beating up on me this weekend at BBR have some good OD input to share.

Offbeat? Gut?? Chicken??? You guys had it going on, any secrets to share?
Guest

Post by Guest »

Peter:

First Off, good luck with the J109, I hope you have a fantastic time on the boat.

There are a lot of different sailing and trimming techniques that can work for the J109 and depending on your driving style and sails some will work better than others. Unlike Chris, I race exclusively one design and have no PHRF sails so I have no comment on when to switch. My rig is tuned for the Doyle/Ploch sails we have.

I also don't use polars, don't have them plugged in to the instruments. Our Targets come form sailing against the other top J109's and judging what works from them.

Here are some observations that might help you. In light air upwind with class sails the bottom half of the fleet sail to high with the sails strapped in, to the contrary, top of the fleet press for speed, and take small jumps to weather once the speed is reached. When the seas are lumpy, this is doubly true.

Trimming the main in light to medium air I disagree with Chris. We take the traveler all the way to the top of the track and ease the mainsheet out to keep the boom just above centerline. The main leech is still below centerline and the leach is nice and open for a powered up shape.

In heavy air, over 12 knots, the opposite is true. The bottom boats don't sheet in hard enough, especially the jib and they don't point high enough to keep the boat flat. The main leach still neads to have a nice twist, but you should try grinding the jib in beyond what looks pretty. "Try to rip it right off the headstay" is what I tell a trimer new to the class.

And the final super secret is the gift of windward sheeting. Try grinding the windward sheet so the clue is back over the jib track. You will have to ease the lead aft a bit to get the right shape, but this helps more than anything else upwind.

Jim Johnstone's Downwind sailing 101- With a class spinaker ease the tack 2-3 feet from the pole. Steer so the tack line is perpendicular. Head in the direction the tack line is leaning. If the mark is high and the tack line is to leeward and not perpendicular, then tighten it and sail like a normal asym with a slight to no curl.

Tastes Like Chicken hull 310

[Posted by: stephen
]
blur
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by blur »

Great advise all,

since we're not in OD, we use inhaulers on the jib. Chris, can you say something on how tight we could sheet the jib? Max should be on the grabrail? I know the faster X-35s are now using super tight angles.

In heavy air, should we use them or just sheet to the track?
chris_z
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by chris_z »

Stephen,

I have been thinking about your comments on trim (and experimenting on my boat using those suggestions) and had a few questions I am hoping you can answer.

Your recommendation on the main trim in less than 12, is that when using the jib, genoa or both? Do you even own a genoa? Up here in Boston we don't have any OD, only PHRF, and with the light breeze get killed with only jib.

I ask because when using the genoa the headsail seems to supply all the power, and the main seems to supply the lift. Keeping the traveler inside the cockpit seats, then sheeting the main in until the top telltale just starts to stall let's me keep my speed while pointing high. If we move the traveler all the way up and ease the main sheet to keep the boom above centerline the top of the sail is twisted off, dumping what little breeze we get, and the front of the sail is luffing because of the slot angle with the genoa. We end up with the same speed, but now sail about 5 degrees lower. What am I missing here?

Also wondering about the 2-3 foot ease of the tack line off the pole. I spent a lot of time looking at you, Gut and OffBeat downwind at BBR (because you were always ahead of me!) and in particular we were looking at tack distance and how people trimmed the mains. I didn't see anyone who had it eased off more than a foot and a half it seemed.

Any insight would be appreciated, it is hard to get optimal boatspeed up here without getting to do all the OD racing you get to do, but we are trying!!!
Guest

Post by Guest »

You are right we don't have a genoa and really only race od.

So the set up will be different. So with the Genoa I would suspect the same philosophy will apply, but in under 7 knots of breeze, or in big seas were power is key.

I suspect in light air twisting off the top of the main will still be fast when power and speed are your priorities, and as the breeze fills in and the boat is powered up then do as you are suspecting drop teh traveler down, trim the main, and point.

Regard to the spinaker. If our tack line wasnt eased more than 12 inches it was for one of a few reasons. We were sailing deeper than we typically would going for position. Going higher than maximum VMG would sugges. The waves were too much and the chute was unstable, or we were in a maneuver.

If we are trying to maximize downwind performance in stable conditions I prefer about 30 inches in ease on the tack line, it often results in better speed, and a allows me to soak down better in the puffs. Warning it can make the spinaker more unstable.

[Posted by: Stephen
]
Guest

Post by Guest »

Any chance you'd come down for Larchmont NOOD or AYC Fall series?

If you do I'll do a tuning day with you guys

[Posted by: stephen
]
chris_z
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by chris_z »

I should be so lucky!!! A couple of non-sailing issues (house sale/divorce) have scaled back my travel options this summer. I am hoping next year to do Block, Newport, BBR and Larchmont, getting four OD events in. But September for me is busy with two PHRF regattas a weekend up here. It was very cool sailing against other 109s at BBR, helped us learn a lot about the boat.
stephen
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by stephen »

Hopefully we'll see you at a couple more events this year. What does your schedule look like for next year?
blur
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm

Post by blur »

Stephen, again, well done at the NA!!!
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