Did our first "real" offshore race this week - 100 mile doublehanded upwind along the Norwegian coast in 25-35 knots!
Boat kept dry inside except wet gear + sails + a few waves coming down the stairs... and sipped down between the floor boards. Some of it got stuck in the kitchen corner against the wood, that starts to look dark after a few hours... wouldn't it be better to leave an inch at the bottom to be able to wipe it away?
Also, when I lifted the boards today there was still water there that will show up the next time the boat sails?
Anyone done any clever arrangements to handle this? Really hate to have water moving around the boat...
Water under cabin soles
Moderator: forumadmin
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Guest
I've had my floorboards replaced due to rot so I have some experience on the subject.
From what I've seen on the shape of the inside of the hull under the floorboards, there's not a lot of water that can collect anywhere and should mostly drain into the sump. What's little that's left should usually dry up.
The real culprit in my case turned out to be a leaking water tank. The flexible tank had a good size crack at the top seam and would only leak when it had enough water and heeled on long tacks. Unfortunately, this was not discovered until the floorboards had been permanently damaged.
After the tank was fixed, the sump stays dry. I did take the extra precaution of sealing the edges of the floorboards.
[Posted by: Alan
]
From what I've seen on the shape of the inside of the hull under the floorboards, there's not a lot of water that can collect anywhere and should mostly drain into the sump. What's little that's left should usually dry up.
The real culprit in my case turned out to be a leaking water tank. The flexible tank had a good size crack at the top seam and would only leak when it had enough water and heeled on long tacks. Unfortunately, this was not discovered until the floorboards had been permanently damaged.
After the tank was fixed, the sump stays dry. I did take the extra precaution of sealing the edges of the floorboards.
[Posted by: Alan
]
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Guest
As I understand it, primary sources of water in the bilge are: 1) loose water heater hose connections, and 2) leaky rudder bearing seal (I expect on older boats only - seems to have been done "properly" on hull 309 in our area). We've had an inspection port put in our galley floorboard so we can wet-vac it dry as necessary.
Our limber holes also aren't flush with the bilge area floor that is supposed to drain, so a bit of water collects before it drains away (and it also doesn't drain away completely).
[Posted by: Tom Niccoli
]
Our limber holes also aren't flush with the bilge area floor that is supposed to drain, so a bit of water collects before it drains away (and it also doesn't drain away completely).
[Posted by: Tom Niccoli
]
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Guest
Need to understand better re: leak at rudder brg?
I've got water coming from somewhere and my yard guys can't figure it out. It's not a lot, but enough to slosh around and ruin the wood. Just started this season after the keel retro was competed, but don't suspect a connection. Had the saildrive fairing plate re-sealed twice (culprit when the boat was first commissioned because factory drilled the screws all the way through the grid instead of blind), but to no avail this time. Checked all hoses and tanks... no leaks. I'm stumped. Exactly what needs to be done to check the rudder brg? Any help out there?
PS: agree that the limber holes are useless unless you get lots of water. Floor is not pitched much (sp: at all) and the holes are too high to drain into what little is left of the bilge after the retrofit.
[Posted by: Barry
]
I've got water coming from somewhere and my yard guys can't figure it out. It's not a lot, but enough to slosh around and ruin the wood. Just started this season after the keel retro was competed, but don't suspect a connection. Had the saildrive fairing plate re-sealed twice (culprit when the boat was first commissioned because factory drilled the screws all the way through the grid instead of blind), but to no avail this time. Checked all hoses and tanks... no leaks. I'm stumped. Exactly what needs to be done to check the rudder brg? Any help out there?
PS: agree that the limber holes are useless unless you get lots of water. Floor is not pitched much (sp: at all) and the holes are too high to drain into what little is left of the bilge after the retrofit.
[Posted by: Barry
]
Barry,
If its the lower rudder bearing, you need to crawl back thru the cockpit locker and visually sight the lower rudder bearing. If its leaking, you will see water "pooled" at the top of the bearing and a trickle of water running down towards the engine pan..Teh rudder bearing its adjustable with a allen wrench. If its too loose, you will get water in around the rudder bearing, and that runs down and collects in the floor pan aft of the bilge. When the boat heeled, it would show up under the Nav Seat and in the cabinets under the stove. If the bearing it too tight it makes the rudder stiff and feel like its binding up some. There is a nice balance point were the bearing doesn't leak and the rudder swings pretty free. See the Edson rudder bearing maintenance sheet posted in the members section of the site. Feel free to call me and I can try to give you a better description if needed (757-635-3007)
Pete Morrison
If its the lower rudder bearing, you need to crawl back thru the cockpit locker and visually sight the lower rudder bearing. If its leaking, you will see water "pooled" at the top of the bearing and a trickle of water running down towards the engine pan..Teh rudder bearing its adjustable with a allen wrench. If its too loose, you will get water in around the rudder bearing, and that runs down and collects in the floor pan aft of the bilge. When the boat heeled, it would show up under the Nav Seat and in the cabinets under the stove. If the bearing it too tight it makes the rudder stiff and feel like its binding up some. There is a nice balance point were the bearing doesn't leak and the rudder swings pretty free. See the Edson rudder bearing maintenance sheet posted in the members section of the site. Feel free to call me and I can try to give you a better description if needed (757-635-3007)
Pete Morrison
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Guest
Adjusted the rudder bearing but still get water (only when the engine runs... the higher the RPM the more water). Guess its coming from hoses or saildrive through-hull. Checked (and tightend) all the hoses. At this point I'm destined to live with it until we pull the boat for the season and start all over again. Thx for all the suggestions.
[Posted by: Barry
]
[Posted by: Barry
]
Barry,
Sounds like you need someone to crawl around the engine (very carefully on a calm, smooth day) while running the boat in gear at higher rpm and see if he can find where the water is coming from. I would guess its a hose or maybe even the waterpump housing...as you should get more pressure as rpm increases. Other possibility is you have an exhaust leak...have you checked the exhaust while the engine is running?
Sounds like you need someone to crawl around the engine (very carefully on a calm, smooth day) while running the boat in gear at higher rpm and see if he can find where the water is coming from. I would guess its a hose or maybe even the waterpump housing...as you should get more pressure as rpm increases. Other possibility is you have an exhaust leak...have you checked the exhaust while the engine is running?
Hi,
Boy do I have experience with water sloshing around the hull! Every time I'd sail I'd take on water from some mysterious source, and because the bilge design on these boats (or at least on my boat, hull #47) is at best half thought out, it would never drain. Don't get me wrong -- I love my boat dearly, but this issue could really test my love!
My understanding, from talking with other owners, is that this leaking depends what your hull number is. Early hulls like mine leak profusely through the rudder post, while later models have managed to fix this problem. The problem is greatly compounded by the fact that once water is in the boat, it doesn't drain to the bilge because the drain hole connecting one compartment to the next is about 1 cm above the bottom of the compartment when the boat is flat. So each bilge compartment is pretty much guaranteed to have 1 cm of water in it at any time, and when you're sailing and heeled over, that drain hole is now way above the lowest point on each compartment. The result was that we could not store anything except waterproof items beneath the stove, in the chart table, or in the cabinet aft of the stove. When the water finally made it into our quarterberth closet, wetting my wife's gear, that was when I learned this had to be fixed. It wasn't uncommon to finish a sail with 100 lbs of saltwater sloshing around!
I posted my technical question on the J/Boats website and got no response. I then called J/Boats and left a message with one of the brothers but my call was never returned.
So I took matters into my own hands. I went through all possible sources of water leaking. It wasn't the engine, head sink, leaky water tanks, leaky plumbing, etc. It was definitely coming up through the rudder post. I would climb back to the lower rudder post, and while sailing or motoring water would percolate up. The only way to stop this was to tighten the socket head cap screws on the lower bearing seal so much that the rudder barely turned. The top of the bearing post is above the water line when sitting still, but when moving the stern wave rises above this level, and water is forced in.
Since I was entering a 3-day race down the California coast, I needed a fix. My solution was to buy some rubber and silicone caulk and build a dike around the rudder post, effectively making the post about 4 inches taller. I then installed a 1/4-inch hose through this dike that ran forward to the compartment with the bilge pump. This works like a charm. Water drips a few drops per second from the hose into the bilge, and my 3-day coastal adventure was totally dry.
I've heard there's a new rudder bearing design that fixes the root cause the next time the boat is hauled, but for now my temporary fix is working.
Boy do I have experience with water sloshing around the hull! Every time I'd sail I'd take on water from some mysterious source, and because the bilge design on these boats (or at least on my boat, hull #47) is at best half thought out, it would never drain. Don't get me wrong -- I love my boat dearly, but this issue could really test my love!
My understanding, from talking with other owners, is that this leaking depends what your hull number is. Early hulls like mine leak profusely through the rudder post, while later models have managed to fix this problem. The problem is greatly compounded by the fact that once water is in the boat, it doesn't drain to the bilge because the drain hole connecting one compartment to the next is about 1 cm above the bottom of the compartment when the boat is flat. So each bilge compartment is pretty much guaranteed to have 1 cm of water in it at any time, and when you're sailing and heeled over, that drain hole is now way above the lowest point on each compartment. The result was that we could not store anything except waterproof items beneath the stove, in the chart table, or in the cabinet aft of the stove. When the water finally made it into our quarterberth closet, wetting my wife's gear, that was when I learned this had to be fixed. It wasn't uncommon to finish a sail with 100 lbs of saltwater sloshing around!
I posted my technical question on the J/Boats website and got no response. I then called J/Boats and left a message with one of the brothers but my call was never returned.
So I took matters into my own hands. I went through all possible sources of water leaking. It wasn't the engine, head sink, leaky water tanks, leaky plumbing, etc. It was definitely coming up through the rudder post. I would climb back to the lower rudder post, and while sailing or motoring water would percolate up. The only way to stop this was to tighten the socket head cap screws on the lower bearing seal so much that the rudder barely turned. The top of the bearing post is above the water line when sitting still, but when moving the stern wave rises above this level, and water is forced in.
Since I was entering a 3-day race down the California coast, I needed a fix. My solution was to buy some rubber and silicone caulk and build a dike around the rudder post, effectively making the post about 4 inches taller. I then installed a 1/4-inch hose through this dike that ran forward to the compartment with the bilge pump. This works like a charm. Water drips a few drops per second from the hose into the bilge, and my 3-day coastal adventure was totally dry.
I've heard there's a new rudder bearing design that fixes the root cause the next time the boat is hauled, but for now my temporary fix is working.
I have hull #44 and have the same problem. The water source is the lower Edson rudder bearing. Too tight and you can't steer, too loose too much water. In addition the Edson bearing gums up and "thumps" when turning. The permanent fix it to upgrade the lower bearing on a haulout, but they aren't cheap, it will solve the problem with the water and the "thumping" (several boat in The NW have done this and it working great). My short term solution was to install a "gator" around the lower bearing and post. It keep the water out of the boat, but I don't want to know what's growing inside the gator. I agree the drain holes are too high- we had filler added to bring the level up to the drain, but with the keep up grade we had to have that all redone. I still get some water in the nav bench, and under the stove on windy days, but for the most part it does stay dry...
If you want to try the gator I can track down the manufacture, but even then I think I had to drop the rudder to place the gator on...
If you want to try the gator I can track down the manufacture, but even then I think I had to drop the rudder to place the gator on...
Water under cabin soles
If I do this right this is what you are looking for: The local yard installed it. I still have issues with the lower Edson bearing, but at least it stays dry. I'm afraid to see what's growing inside the gaiter.
Jerry
S/V Shada
J109 #44
This a Jeffa Gaiter
Rudder Gaiter
Jerry
S/V Shada
J109 #44
This a Jeffa Gaiter
Rudder Gaiter
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We have hull #104 and the leaky rudder stock. I replaced the lower 'o' ring with a square cross section seal but it still leaked. Tightening the Allen studs really affects the light steering. Here is a permanent, cheap, no maintenance, remedy. Solution: wrap a section of neoprene (wetsuit) 24" X 10" to form an overlapping cuff around the rudder hull base. Clamp in place onto the hull base using long stainless steel clamps X 2. The water leaks into the neoprene cuff and not the boat. No need to remove the rudder.
Peter McComb Vancouver, BC
Peter McComb Vancouver, BC
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Vento Solare
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
- Location: Newport, RI
Re: Water under cabin soles
I had two sources of water this year. One I found after changing the oil and watching the engine run with the steps removed. The forward seal on the raw water pump was putting seawater in the bilge, only when the pump was running. A new raw water pump fixed this problem. I thought the water in the bilge problem was fixed water still appeared in the bilge after a rain storm when the boat was at the dock.
Today I had someone spray a hose on everything topside while I crawled around below. I found the rectangular panel screwed on the deck just aft of the helm was leaking. I'll take this apart and rebed it. Hopefully this is the final source of water in the bilge.
Today I had someone spray a hose on everything topside while I crawled around below. I found the rectangular panel screwed on the deck just aft of the helm was leaking. I'll take this apart and rebed it. Hopefully this is the final source of water in the bilge.
