In Hauler Systems

Topics about Class Rules and the RRS.

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Rosalita#73
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In Hauler Systems

Post by Rosalita#73 »

"The J109 class measurer is proposing that the executive board submit to the class a change to the class rules that will allow the installation of a jib in hauler system. The current rule 4.3.7 “Trimming the lazy windward sheet to barber haul the jib” allows for in hauling by using the lazy sheet but does not allow for the addition of any additional blocks, pad eyes or lines to do so. The technical committee and the executive board will be reviewing the wording and options and submit to the class for a vote.

Options under consideration

“For all class events a jib in hauler system may be used utilizing a block and tackle system affixed to the base of the mast or ”

"A control line secured with pad eyes, cam cleats and/or blocks mounted on the cabin top to permit inhauling the jib"

Please provide input.

Rick Hanson
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Vento Solare
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by Vento Solare »

To see this in context, these would allowable under class rule 4.3 which states:
4.3 The following are permitted while racing:

I am in favor of "A control line secured with pad eyes, cam cleats and/or blocks mounted on the cabin top to permit inhauling the jib" because this is open to alternatives similar to existing rule 4.3.5 for barber hauling the jib. Rule 4.3.5 "U-bolts or pad eyes outboard of the track for barber hauling the jib or affixing blocks to stanchion bases for the same purpose".

My recommendation is class rule 4.3.7 should be changed from:
4.3.7 Trimming the lazy windward sheet to barber haul the jib
to read:
4.3.7 A control line secured with pad eyes, cam cleats and/or blocks mounted on the cabin top to permit inhauling the jib
J-109 Emoticon
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by J-109 Emoticon »

I have added two diagrams which have been submitted with the original proposal. Diagram A which is a simple arrangement using existing hardware to in haul the jib and diagram B using a block and tackle system (similar to the J-88 configuration).
Attachments
In Hauler without additional blocks
In Hauler without additional blocks
109.A.png (75.58 KiB) Viewed 31614 times
In Hauler with additional blocks
In Hauler with additional blocks
109.B.png (77.06 KiB) Viewed 31614 times
carlbraden
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by carlbraden »

I am in favor - its a well used trim technique - lets update the class and the rules!

Carl
kerryklingler
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by kerryklingler »

the Quantum Class Jib has been refined over the years, the shape has been perfected. Each year we have made slight improvements in the sails that have yielded big differences in speed. For the 2012 season we redesigned our class Jib to be able to inhaul. One of the keys to inhauling is the clew height, we shortened the leech length of the sail, raising the clew to be able to inhaul the sail. Here is Storm going upwind in the 2012 North American championships, which was won by Storm. Notice the clew is high enough to sheet the clew close to the handrail. Most of the time we were sheeting within 4 to 5” to the rail.
Storm Upwind.jpg
Storm Upwind.jpg (47.24 KiB) Viewed 31453 times


In this case we used the windward sheet to inhaul the sail. The problem with this is that the sail has to be sheeted and the leads have to be adjusted in a systematic way to insure you a trimming the sail the same from tack to tack. It requires a skilled trimmer to consistently trim the sail correctly.

By allowing inhaulers, the jib trimming process would become much easier to do. The tackle system used on J-111 or J-88 could be copied and used in a similar way. The cost would run under $400 attached is an equipment list for the hardware. But most important is the ability for the crew to inhaul in an effective way, consistently, without having to fuss too much to trim the sail effectively.

Sincerely,

Kerry Klingler
Quantum Sails
Email: kklingler@quantumsails.com
Tel:914-924-3466
Attachments
J-109 inhauler cost.xlsx
(9.02 KiB) Downloaded 1108 times
Jack Orr
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by Jack Orr »

Thanks for the chance to weigh in on this Class Rule change.

Adding a dedicated purchase system for in-hauling the jib, will be a noticeable performance boost for a relatively small cost up front to the owner. Some boats may even switch to the small jib for handicap racing as well, since the effective wind range of the 105% jib will increase.

Most of the top J-109's already in-haul with the lazy sheet as allowed currently. Moving the clew inboard helps the jib sail a higher angle, just like the traveler on the mainsail. That's why other boats with non-overlapping jibs install in-haulers as standard equipment. Using the lazy sheet to pull the clew inboard helps, but is not ideal. Since it pulls forward as much as it pulls in, it's a balancing act to keep from making the foot too round, and still get the leech tight, this gets harder as the breeze increases. Also, the lazy sheet really loads up, chafing the sheet and putting load on the mast. Every time the boat tacks, it needs to be re-adjusted. A dedicated in-haul system addresses all these issues.

The cost up front will be the hardware , between $300-$400 as some have researched already. Order some extra sandwiches as crews will have to take some extra practice time to get the trim technique right. Having looked at a lot of J-109 sails, most major sailmakers already have their clews high enough to sheet in to the hand rail. So, using a cabin top in-haul system shouldn't require major, if any re-cutting. So existing jibs will still be usable.

Owners and sailmakers are never satisfied, development will happen. Expect a new AP Jib model from every sailmaker, optimized for the new set up. New sails will fit better, and have new shapes, and be faster. We all work hard every year to make each model sail better than last year's. So, if we do our job, a new sail is always faster!

Changing this Class Rule will make sailing the boat with the Class Jib, more fun and faster an in most conditions. I encourage you to pass the new rule.

Thanks again, please feel free to contact me with any questions,
Jack Orr
North Sails
J-109 CSD

jack.orr@northsails.com

o: 203-877-7621
adrianbegley
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by adrianbegley »

I think we should make this change - it is relatively inexpensive and will be simpler than using the lazy sheet. A further benefit is that it will save wear on the mast boot.

Adrian,

Mad Dogs & Englishmen
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Vento Solare
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by Vento Solare »

Following is input from Jeff Johnstone of J Boats regarding the two proposed changes.

1) In-hauler - this one item would be the best performance value upgrade one could make to the J/109. Having a proper inhaul system (vs. the current method of windward sheeting and having to overcompensate the jib car position aft) would make it easier for the average J/109 team to replicate fast settings and therefore achieve more consistent performance.

2 Bobstay - this was OK'd in the J/111 class as almost all boats had a Code Zero for distance racing which required additional support, so easier for the group to just permit it. There is a slight but tough-to-quantify performance benefit to carrying one on a more powered up reach with the class kite as it minimizes sprit flex which in turn keeps more energy in the sail. A bobstay would also help prolong the life of the sprit and reduce the chances of breaking one during a windy round-up when the kite suddenly refills.
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Vento Solare
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by Vento Solare »

Kerry,

Quick question on the inhauler drawing you posted with 4:1 purchase. Is the aft block (Harken 2637 I presume) anchored to the cabin top? I don't see the system working unless the aft block is fixed. If it is fixed, It may make sense to drill and mount a cheek block.

Another question - do you think there is too much friction if the spectra from the mast center lead through the friction ring is lead back through the stainless U at the base of the mast before leading aft? I''m thinking this would prevent interference with the hatch aft of the mast.
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Vento Solare
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by Vento Solare »

The inhauler rules change vote passed and became effective 22 October 2015.

In response to my question about anchoring the aft block asked of Kerry Klinger, we spoke and he indicated that the aft block is anchored to the cabin top.

I have documented the new inhaul setup installed on Vento Solare in this thread and am looking forward to trying it when the boat is launched in the spring.

There are many ways to setup an inhaul system. Brooke Mastrorio is playing with another method using a temporary setup on URSA. Once she is happy with with desired results, she has promised to document on the forum the system she likes.
kerryklingler
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by kerryklingler »

Dear J-109 sailors,

There was a lot of people asking about the hardware and rigging needed for inhaulers on the J-109. Attached is a drawing of what I have in mind. The drawing has only one side of the boat drawn in, understand you will need duplicate hardware for both sides of the boat. The Small inhauler lead ferrel is being developed now and will be available soon. This is a custom hardware by Oyster Bay Boat Shop. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at 914-924-3466.

Thanks,

Kerry Klingler
J-109 Deck Plan W inhaulers for Jib sheets.jpg
J-109 Deck Plan W inhaulers for Jib sheets.jpg (231.63 KiB) Viewed 29192 times
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Vento Solare
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Re: In Hauler Systems

Post by Vento Solare »

Thanks for posting Kerry.

For those who use the approach that Kerry describes above, make sure that the Harken 3275 Bolt down fairlead is properly mounted to the deck. The holes should be epoxy isolated and it is a good idea to install something like a G10 backing plate to spread the load. Below is a photo of the backing plate setup I made for Vento Solare. The inhaul system installed on Vento Solare is slightly different and can be seen at this link.

Image
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