Mainsheet cleat support post

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J-109 Emoticon
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Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:41 pm

Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by J-109 Emoticon »

Anyone have any experience repairing the support post which the block/cleat assembly are mounted forward of the traveler? Mine pulled out at AYC Spring. Access to underneath that part of the cockpit appears to be very difficult.

Thanks
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Vento Solare
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Location: Newport, RI

Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Vento Solare »

JR - since I'm on the boat now, I took a look underneath. I've got a single 7/16" hex nut that appears pretty accessible in between the steering idler wheels. Topside there are 4 hex head bolts that fasten the aluminum plate to the traveler track where a single screw threads into the top of the rod (it may actually float and not thread into the rod). I think that the rod is mostly under tension, as I can't see what would compress it based on where the main sheet swivel attaches.
Bengt J
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Bengt J »

The traveller cleat support is a SS tube with 5/16 or M8 threads at both ends.
On the way to NA last year the top bolt pulled out by completely stripping the threads and the track started to flex up to an 1". In Newport we tried to fix it but to get to the bottom bolt you have to remove all headliners and wood trim in the back of the aft cabin and that is not all -on Zig Zag the bolt is glassed over. Needless to say we could not use the middle 2 ft of the traveller that regatta.
Back home I ended up drilling a 1/8" hole true the tube and bolt about 1/2" below the plate for the cleat and installed a 1/8" cotter pin to secure it. The cotter pin was strong enough for the AYC spring regatta.
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Vento Solare
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Location: Newport, RI

Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Vento Solare »

After reading Bengt's post, I will check my support again. When I took the traveler off a while back to replace the bearings in the mainsheet car, the tube fell off, and I assumed it was just for compression. Now I know otherwise.

Attached is a picture underneath that shows where the bolt passes through the deck to the post on Vento Solare. Right side of picture is forward. This is looking up between the steering idler wheels.
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under deck for traveler support.jpg
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J-109 Emoticon
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by J-109 Emoticon »

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So in my case the bottom threads pulled out of the tube. I have the same access problem you have on ZZ. The entire area is boxed in. I'm thinking about sawing out access from the starboard side lazerette to get access to the lower bolt. Hard to see from the picture however that's plywood behind the steering pully.
jng7000
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by jng7000 »

We had the same problem recently on Junkyard Dog. There seems to be a threaded insert in each end of the SS tube that failed on our boat. There is a phillips head screw which you can only see once you pull the headliner down inside the two wood boards that form a "V". You can see the headliner you'll need to pull down in the picture Bill put up. We have the same nut he shows but at least on our boat that's not the one you need. Easiest way we found to confirm we had the right fastener was to pull a measurement from the handrail on the side of the stairs/companionway to the post outside, then pull that same measurement under the boat through the starboard storage area.

It requires some advanced yoga maneuvers to turn the screw but it can be done. A phillips bit on a ratchet wrench may be helpful. We also found having one person hold the screw and turning the SS tube from up top was easier. We put an eyebolt on each side and a turnbuckle in between which seems to be working well so far.
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Jim
"Junkyard Dog" #168
California Offshore Race week video: https://youtu.be/R3nHBRV1HbE
San Francisco "Duxship" regatta video: https://youtu.be/BViC3bnHqL0
Three Bridge Fiasco Video: https://youtu.be/OHbnSJSzIdw
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Vento Solare
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Vento Solare »

I like Jim's solution better as the long term fix. Much easier to repair or replace in the future. Added to my work list in the next off season.
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Vento Solare
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Fixed!: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Vento Solare »

Thanks to the help from Sam Goldblatt of Marquise II I had a second set of hands to help fix the support post. I was going to do the same fix that Jim documented for Junkyard Dog but decided on a different approach for Vento Solare using 1/4-20 threaded stainless steel rod.

Access to the underside is in the port side aft cabin. Using the small portlight from inboard side of the cabin as a reference, the fastener goes through the deck 22 inches aft of the inside aft lip of the portlight, and 13 inches inboard of the interior surface of the portlight (this should be the centerline). There is diagonal woodwork at the aft inboard end above the bunk that needs to be removed.

Once the woodwork is removed, the underside has a phillips head screw and shoulder washer.
Image

The tabbing has been chiseled off from the screw so it is now visible and can be removed.
Image

This is a view from below the traveler. There are 4 T-Bolts that can be seen. These fasten the aluminum plate that holds the main sheet swivel, and also connects the tie rod to the deck.
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The next two photos are the top and bottom of the aluminum plate. I broke a bit of using an impact wrench trying to remove the phillips head screw that fastens to the tie bar. The underside shows a round nut on this screw. It was welded in the end of the tie bar. There is a similar nut at the opposite end of the bar. These are weak points where the weld fails, thus the tie bar no longer protects the traveler in tension when the main sheet is tight.
Image
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Below is the final fix shown on the bench. The nuts originally welded on the end of the tie bar are inserted, and 1/4-20 stainless steel threaded rod is screwed through the rod. The nuts will provide the ability to tighten the top and bottom independently. The rod was cut at 13" and then once installed and the nuts on opposite ends tightened, the excess was cut off. **Edit** The acorn nut on the top was too tall and interfered with the swivel. Using a regular hex nut and lock washer did not interfere.
Image

By the time I finished installing the fixed rod, it was too dark for pictures, but it looks the same anyway!
Mvallus
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Mvallus »

Just as an update to this post:

I went with Bill's fix for the traveler support rod. Ordered 1/4 - 20 threaded stainless rod from McMaster. I discovered no stripping on the original nuts (Hull 251), but, just to be safe, made the change. Threaded rod threaded nicely through original tube. I added a G10 backing plate as well. Pretty easy job. Removing trim and quarter berth inboard panel was a bit challenging (as always), but was also a good opportunity to check quadrant and steering cables/wheels and tighten nuts.

***When removing the headliner underneath (and just aft) of the LPG compartment I did discover that two very poorly placed screws punctured the compartment. Therefore, water was leaking into the headliner and dripping near the steering cable wheels.
Dan Corcoran
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Dan Corcoran »

After reading this entry last year, I am so glad I ordered a 1/4 - 20 threaded stainless rod from McMaster for a future upgrade.

That upgrade unexpectedly came on the launching of my boat.

When attempting to replace the balls in my traveler I found the support post and some stainless bolts on one end of the track had become one with the aluminum. In attempting to separate it, the threaded insert in the support post broke away leaving me with the sudden urgency to do this upgrade.

This is an extensive 1 1/2-day DIY project that you cannot start without this part. I highly recommend owners invest the $14 to obtain this stainless threaded rod in anticipation of any need to disassemble the mainsheet traveler track.

McMaster
Product 93250A251
Description Super-Corrosion-Resistant 316 Stainless Steel Threaded Rod, 1/4"-20 Thread Size, 1 1/2 Feet Long, Packs of 1
Price 4.26
Sales Tax 1.10
Shipping 8.48
Total $13.84
Dan Corcoran
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Dan Corcoran »

Improvement: We made the acorn nut work by using 4 longer screws and 2 plastic spacers on each of the 4 screws securing the mainsheet swivel to the aluminum plate.
Dan Corcoran
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Re: Mainsheet cleat support post

Post by Dan Corcoran »

Additional note, all the work can be done on the boat.

work includes:
- tedious - drilling out any screws that get stuck in your traveller track
- hard - remove the traveler swivel from the aluminum without dropping any balls. Use electrical tape to keep it all together until you reinstall later
- easy - disassemble liners in aft cabin
- tedious - drilling out the hardware under the cockpit floor (On Strider #332, this was glassed in)
- tedious - cleaning the old 5200 off of everything with scrapers
- easy - put the threaded rod through the support post, figure out the correct length by experiment through the aluminum block to have enough room for acorn nut
- 2 person - reinstall track, rebedding hardware with 5200 and butyl tape as top layer. Be careful to apply 5200 only after you put the rod most of the way though the floor of the cockpit, because if you didn't ...
- hard - quickly remove any 5200 that got on the portion of the threaded rod appearing underneath in the cabin, before it hardens. Need good ventilation and acetone. (or, seriously consider using only butyl take alone without the 5200.)
- medium - reassemble the cabin joinering
- hard but quick - install the traveller swivel without dropping any of the balls.

Dropped the balls? If you have the upgraded car with the reinforced hardware designed by Bam at Oyster Bay Marine, there are 20 of those balls to find.


Parts and supplies needed for this project.
McMaster threaded rod part above
Acorn nut for top of rod
Self locking nut for bottom of rod
Normal nut for bottom of rod just before shortening (place on thread before cutting, then back off to insure thread is preserved)
A few matching big ass washers for each side of the deck
A tube of 5200, fast cure
4 longer screws for mainsheet swivel
8 spacers
replacement for any screws that were ruined when removing traveler track
Forespar Lanocote (dip all stainless parts that will contact with aluminum)
Butyl tape (at a minimum, apply on the top side of the deck, under the washer that will sit on the deck, as you would for any rebed project)
Electrical tape
acetone
rags

Did I forget anything?
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