I mentioned to them that I heard on the annual class call that the table could become unnecessary in the class rules, and likely removed to save weight and make it easier for spin douses. They asked me to keep it anyhow, it is integral to their enjoyment of the boat when sleeping aboard and eating.
Has anyone seen a lighter weight table to potentially put in its place, perhaps mount on the mast?
I assume the goal of removing the table is a main saloon that is clear of obstructions with a flat cabin sole.
If the table and cabinet are removed, won't the rules have to provide specs for the relocation of the battery, etc.?
Our opinion is that removing the table do not change the performance of the j/109, it is more a perception of convenience/better access or lack of support if removed. Input from owners has been a mixed bag so far.
J-boats are not in favor of removing the table, it is a step away from the j/109 being a true dual purpose cruiser/racer.
We would welcome comments from as many owners as possible. Please reply to this post or email me bengt dot j109 at gmail dot com.
The J/109 is designed as a racer-cruiser. If the rules are changed to allow stripping factory installed items where do we end? Cushions come off, stove and propane bottle out, all the cabin doors and cabinets too?
I support the option of removing the table. It makes for a safer and easier racing experience down below. Less to fall into and easier for letterbox drop and repacking kites.
Of course, if someone wants to keep it in, that’s fine.
I support the option of being able to remove 2 doors, retaining the head door, for the same reasons. The table and doors are easy to remove and reinstall.
I don’t support removing the stove or any other gear.
Exercising the option of removing the table and 2 doors does not alter the “cruisability” of the boat in a meaningful way. We eat on the settees or on deck. After all, we usually don’t race with the aft box or a Bimini.
As we know, J Boats have added more flat our racers to their line-up since the 109 arrived. Rather than contemplate changing to one of their new models, I prefer to permit small changes to the 109 to make it more easy to race without taking away the cruising aspect. The change to permit bobstays for the Mac keeps the boat current in terms of Code usages. Modest changes will help the fleet, in my view.
Thanks for taking a poll.
Since we race 95% of the time and cruise once a season, I would like to remove the heavy, unwieldy table. Perhaps the class can sponsor design of a lighter, portable table as a cruising option.
Removing the table should have no tactical advantage but does change the racer/cruiser concept of the boat. Even the J111 has a table and I am not sure of the newer models. Allowing removal of the table and whatever else comes next may discourage the casual racer from competing, as they may feel even less competitive if they don't follow the arms race.
I am for leaving the table.
What we should be discussing is the French boats that have the batteries at centerline, with all that weight in the middle of the boat.
Ted Herlihy, Gut Feeling
Particularly at night in big breeze and large / chaotic sea states on longer distance offshore races, the table poses a safety problem. Around the cans, removing the table allows for easier chute packing / sail handling.
Because the French 109s have their batteries on centerline in the base of the table, we have built a wood box to cover the batteries and cabling.
I understand the slippery slope argument. I don’t support wholesale revisions to the class rules. But this modification is straightforward and compliance is easy to verify.
I am one of the few owners (if not the only one) who has worked the bow and every job on the boat extensively (many regattas over multiple years in every position) never found the table in the way for douse or resetting the spinnaker. Letter box douse on J109? Why, what went wrong isn’t getting fixed by removing the table.
If the J109 class keeps changing what was a very well designed racer cruiser One Design boat we will loose more class participation of those who may be on the fence, like me, than we will gain. When changes are made to One design fleets they need to be looked at from the standpoint of deviating the vessel from its original intended use a bracket of uses. Racer cruiser vs racer to cruiser racer.... I am trying to get my family to be most of my crew. This is what the design had in mind. Not stripping it down and souping it up to be XY or Z.
The deck changes have already created inconsistencies throughout the fleet. Although they are nuanced this is the reality. I have raced on or seen deck layouts of at least 4 different J109 in-hauler systems. In-haulers are created differently and yield nuanced performance differences (No longer true OD racing). The car block change to compensate is another, I have not done this change so as to keep my deck original less cluttered AS DESIGNED. This is a disadvantage when racing. OK table out = table out. But I won't do it so again to race OD I am disadvantaged because I keep my boat original. This type of move will erode the class slowly but surely.
DON’T CHANGE A ONE DESIGN BOAT THAT WORKS. Look at the longevity of the 105 fleet. They still thrive. Yes, I race on 105s as well. I know the boat well, I am a member of the current J105 NA Championship crew. They don’t change the one design and remain a very competitive and active fleet. Why change it if we all have the same thing? ONE DESIGN!
Where does it end? Please stop changing the OD of this wonderful Racer Cruiser.
Picante - 126
Incendiary Hull 168
I mostly race my J/109. Both racing and cruising we have meals on the table, go through the trouble of moving the anchor back to the rear so we can use the table, and can't imagine it not being there.
The arguments in favor of keeping the table that resonate with me:
* "Allowing removal of the table and whatever else comes next may discourage the casual racer from competing, as they may feel even less competitive if they don't follow the arms race." - Ted Herlihy, Gut Feeling
* "The table has not been in the way and will agree that it ends acting as a sail bin on the port side settee. Keep the one design rules intact..." - Trevor Roach
* "Never found it in the way with full crew racing. Actually holds sails well at the mast port side and leaves runway to v berth." - John Sahagian
* "This type of move will erode the class slowly but surely." - John Sahagian
* "The J/109 is designed as a racer-cruiser. If the rules are changed to allow stripping factory-installed items where do we end?" - Bill Kneller